Bush's War on Iraq

[Dennis S.]

Just wondering what you guys think... I personally believe that Bushie boy wants to spend some taxpayers' money in order to distract people from the fact that he STILL can't capture Bin Laden. Also, he probably wants to make some more profit off his oil companies - and send the grunts to do the job (and die) for him. Oh, and of course to show his dad that he's soooo much smarter than him.

[Dennis S.]

What's sad is that he uses US's influence to get other governments into his own private little war to... Old idiots like our own Chretien will always listen to him as long as they're interested in trade with the US.

[Nxs]

I don't think there is any reason to goto war as of yet, and there wont be as long as Iraq complies with the UN. If they do that thenno war is needed, if they break the treaty....bomb the bastards http://www.gamershell.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Bucky]

I saw your post when it first was put up and decided that I had better chew on it before I answered. And I’ll even cut you some slack because you are Canadian http://www.gamershell.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I vehemently disagree with you calling this "Bush’s private war". Â*Bush was not attacked on September 11, the United States was attacked. Â*We as a nation, and a people were attacked. This has nothing to do with who is sitting in the White House.

Your comment that the whole thing is an attempt to distract our (American citizens) attention from his failure to capture Osama is way off the mark. Â*Recall his post 9/11 speech, he did not declare war on Al Qaida (sp?) or Bin Laden, he declared war on terrorism. Â*Do you really have any doubt that Saddam Hussein is involved in terrorism? This is the same guy who has gassed his own citizenry.

Now, you accuse Bush of using US leverage to force other weak leaders to fall in line with him. Fine, I can live with that.

But I think you should recall that from the start, we made it very clear that we would go this alone if it came down to it. We are still willing and capable of doing just that.

The reason that all these other leaders have finally gotten in line with Bush is because he made the UN face up to the fact that they are a bunch of useless bureaucrats. Â*It is the UN that has demanded that Iraq dismantle its weapons programs, it is UN inspectors that were thrown out of Iraq years ago. Â*Saddam has been thumbing his nose at the international community for 10 years now. Bush has simply demanded that the UN enforce its own resolutions, or be brushed aside as irrelevant.

Couldn’t it also be possible that the unanimous UN vote was the result of all these leaders realizing that confronting Iraq is the only sane course of action?

Among the many sins of the US news media, the worst, IMO, is their portrayal of politics and the attitude of the American people to the rest of the world. Â*The US media is a liberal mouthpiece. Â*They detest Bush, and do everything they can to make him look like a total jackass. If anybody cares to examine what happened in our recent elections, I think you will get a much better idea about the attitude of your average Joe on the street than by watching CNN.

It seems to me that the rest of the world seems to be trying to say to the US, in effect, "Ok, you were attacked, you went out and kicked some butt, now get over It.", which is pretty much what I expected to happen after a few months. What everybody is going to have to deal with is that, it ain’t over ‘til WE say it’s over.

[Nxs]

You go boy! http://www.gamershell.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Dennis S.]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bucky @ Nov. 21 2002,13:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I saw your post when it first was put up and decided that I had better chew on it before I answered. And I’ll even cut you some slack because you are Canadian http://www.gamershell.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I vehemently disagree with you calling this "Bush’s private war". Â*Bush was not attacked on September 11, the United States was attacked. Â*We as a nation, and a people were attacked. This has nothing to do with who is sitting in the White House.

Your comment that the whole thing is an attempt to distract our (American citizens) attention from his failure to capture Osama is way off the mark. Â*Recall his post 9/11 speech, he did not declare war on Al Qaida (sp?) or Bin Laden, he declared war on terrorism. Â*Do you really have any doubt that Saddam Hussein is involved in terrorism? This is the same guy who has gassed his own citizenry.

Now, you accuse Bush of using US leverage to force other weak leaders to fall in line with him. Fine, I can live with that.

But I think you should recall that from the start, we made it very clear that we would go this alone if it came down to it. We are still willing and capable of doing just that.

The reason that all these other leaders have finally gotten in line with Bush is because he made the UN face up to the fact that they are a bunch of useless bureaucrats. Â*It is the UN that has demanded that Iraq dismantle its weapons programs, it is UN inspectors that were thrown out of Iraq years ago. Â*Saddam has been thumbing his nose at the international community for 10 years now. Bush has simply demanded that the UN enforce its own resolutions, or be brushed aside as irrelevant.

Couldn’t it also be possible that the unanimous UN vote was the result of all these leaders realizing that confronting Iraq is the only sane course of action?

Among the many sins of the US news media, the worst, IMO, is their portrayal of politics and the attitude of the American people to the rest of the world. Â*The US media is a liberal mouthpiece. Â*They detest Bush, and do everything they can to make him look like a total jackass. If anybody cares to examine what happened in our recent elections, I think you will get a much better idea about the attitude of your average Joe on the street than by watching CNN.

It seems to me that the rest of the world seems to be trying to say to the US, in effect, "Ok, you were attacked, you went out and kicked some butt, now get over It.", which is pretty much what I expected to happen after a few months. What everybody is going to have to deal with is that, it ain’t over ‘til WE say it’s over.[/b][/quote]
Bucky, my sentiments go to the US as a country for the 9/11 events. However, try to keep in mind that not only American citizens were in those twin towers. Canadian, British, Australian, Mexican, Spanish, Russian, etc... nationals were also there, and died there together with Americans. Even though it was an attack made inside the USA, it was actually an attack against the entire civilized world. And this doesn&#39;t stop at 9/11. I believe you&#39;ve heard about the Balu attack that has left over 200 people dead. There the targets were mostly Australians, Canadians and British, as Americans were warned not to travel at this time. Why am I saying that? To let you understand that Canada is and will be together with USA in our common war against terrorism. Heck, our guys are still in Afghanistan, and you don&#39;t hear us complaining.

But let me make one thing clear... There was no proof whatsoever that Saddam was involved in those attacks. Now, I know that Saddam&#39;s not exactly a nice guy and all that... But what threat does he currently pose? His country&#39;s economy is crushed with embargos, he&#39;s isolated from the world. Bush mentions U.N. inspectors kicked out of Iraq as one of the reasons to start his war... But when did that happen? Years ago... And no one bothered to do anything until now. And it&#39;s not as if anything happened from Iraq&#39;s side until today since the Desert Storm operation. Finally, reports say he&#39;s seriously ill. He&#39;s paranoid. He can&#39;t think logically. He&#39;s done for. In a few years he&#39;ll die and there will be no need to deal with him. Heck, the last few months he seems to be pleading just to stay alive, or at least that&#39;s what his offers for unconditional return of inspectors seem like.

Now, with all that taken into consideration, the fact that Al Qaeda is still at large and the Arab world is already mad on us as it is (USA, Canada, UK, France and Germany are mentioned in the last Bin Laden tape as possible future targets)... Why would we need to spend our valuable resources and time on someone that doesn&#39;t represent an immidiate threat, can&#39;t be linked to the recent terrorist attacks and offers to let the inspectors back in unconditionally. Don&#39;t forget about the imminent civilian and military casualties... Do we really want to fight those people? They&#39;ve suffered enough during Desert Storm and USA backed war of Iraq vs. Iran. And I would personally say that we&#39;ve got other, more serious problems to care about - like Al Qaeda or North Korea that just announced that it made the first nuke...

P.S. All the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis. So how about we bomb Saudi Arabia? At least we&#39;ve got better reasons to bomb then than Iraq.



Last edited by Dennis S. at Nov. 21 2002,22:38

[Nxs]

Boys boys boys.. You are making wayy too much of this war thing. Little Bush wants to finish what his daddy started, but has no reason to now that Iraq is fully complying, so little Bush has to come up with new reasons. Sadams stupid ass had nothing to do with Sept 11th, he might harbor terroists but theres not a lot of proof there&#33; Bush should concentrate most of his enrgy towards terrorism, don&#39;t worry bout sadam until he screws the pooch&#33; And I&#39;m quite sure he will http://www.gamershell.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[snoopius]

I&#39;m 11 what do I care , I voted support, and I didn&#39;t even read what you guys are talking about&#33;

[Bucky]

Lol&#33; Snoopius

[snoopius]

what up tim???

[Dennis S.]

what&#39;s up bob?

[snoopius]

If anyone has noticed carnage&#39;s avitar it&#39;s a little egg guy named weeble and bob is his friend.

[Bucky]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Dennis S. @ Nov. 21 2002,20:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">To let you understand that Canada is and will be together with USA in our common war against terrorism. Heck, our guys are still in Afghanistan, and you don&#39;t hear us complaining.[/b][/quote]
I don&#39;t want to go around on this again, it looks like we will just have to agree to disagree on the original subject.

The reason I picked this back up was to address the quoted part of your post.

Looking back at my original response, I certainly did disregard the fact that their are many countries who&#39;s sons are laying on the line in this war. For that, I cannot apologize enough. It was assinine, and I am sorry.

[firefly]

Why go after Iraq?
Enough proof was uncovered to indicate Iraq is producing nuclear weapons capabilities. Iraq also is known to have biological and chemical agents. These facts put together with Saddam Hussein&#39;s dislike of the US makes us a prime target. There is also the fact that Saddam went after President Bush personally (our current president&#39;s father), and well, G.W wants revenge. Korea may also possess nuclear capabilities, but is kinda hard to find reasons they would want to point them at us, so they arent as much a threat. Saudi Arabia, home of the terrorists, is THE oil source for the US, in the government&#39;s mind.
An even more interesting look at it could be..... Osama bin Laden is an attention wh***. He is well known to have a huge ego, and his recent public address could be seen as nothing more than a plea for attention. Why actually come out of hiding and let everyone know you are still alive. Being thought dead lets you hide in the shadows working on your plans. Fact is for the past few months everyone has been talking about Saddam, Osama has gone to page 2 (if that) news. Osama got jealous. Some people say his message could have held hidden trigger words for the terrorist cells, but I have yet to see any proof, and there are alot easier ways to put out the messages. Get Osama jealous enough and he will slip up. Who knows, he may get so jealous of Saddam, he tries to knock him off himself.

Personally I think Iraq does present a threat. I would just also like to see us go after Saudi Arabia, but there just doesnt seem to be a feasible way to go about it. I am not sure about any of the others of you that live in the states, but I know that a few months after Sept 11th, my television was bombarded with commercials by the Saudi Arabia discussing how they had been the US&#39;s partners and friends, basically a kiss up campaign by the Saudis. Seeing as how every country in the Middle East severly dislikes the US, not really anyone to trust there. Even Pakistan, which played buddy to the US during the incursion into Afghanistan is known to house cell upon cell of terrorists. Cant go after everyone, for political, economic, and just rational reasons. So you go after what you can, and try to keep your own arse safe for another day or two.

[Dennis S.]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Firefly @ Nov. 24 2002,21:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Personally I think Iraq does present a threat. Â*I would just also like to see us go after Saudi Arabia, but there just doesnt seem to be a feasible way to go about it. Â*I am not sure about any of the others of you that live in the states, but I know that a few months after Sept 11th, my television was bombarded with commercials by the Saudi Arabia discussing how they had been the US&#39;s partners and friends, basically a kiss up campaign by the Saudis. Â*Seeing as how every country in the Middle East severly dislikes the US, not really anyone to trust there. Â*Even Pakistan, which played buddy to the US during the incursion into Afghanistan is known to house cell upon cell of terrorists. Â*Cant go after everyone, for political, economic, and just rational reasons. Â*So you go after what you can, and try to keep your own arse safe for another day or two.[/b][/quote]
I&#39;d agree with that... However immidiate threat? Not likely. My point of argument would be that they:

a) Weren&#39;t found connected to any terror act in the last decade
b)Are willing to let inspectors back in.


Sure, Saddam&#39;s not a nice guy... But there are so many other dictators... Qadaffi is still at large in Lybia but everyone forgot about him... A lot of other hot spots that are more menacing than Iraq at the moment. Why go after Iraq instead of them?

[firefly]

Yes officer, you can check my apartment for drugs, just gimme a sec to get a few friends to move these bags of pot around..... http://www.gamershell.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Scariest part is learning how vicious Saddam&#39;s sons are. Take another guy&#39;s girlfriend (as in physically take her), kill the guy if he tries to stop you, rape the girl, and usually just kill her after. And that is the "less dangerous" son.

[Dennis S.]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Firefly @ Nov. 25 2002,18:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes officer, you can check my apartment for drugs, just gimme a sec to get a few friends to move these bags of pot Â*around..... Â* http://www.gamershell.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Scariest part is learning how vicious Saddam&#39;s sons are. Â*Take another guy&#39;s girlfriend (as in physically take her), kill the guy if he tries to stop you, rape the girl, and usually just kill her after. Â*And that is the "less dangerous" son.[/b][/quote]
That&#39;s what you get from dictatorship... When no one can stop them, they can do whatever they want... That and his sons are pretty much fu(ked in the head.

Didn&#39;t know having g/f&#39;s is alowed in Iraq tho.. Isn&#39;t it more of premarital sex = your **** gets cut off country? http://www.gamershell.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[firefly]

You would actually be surprised how "Americanized" much of the culture is there. They love American products.
As for premarital sex... dont ask dont tell?
http://www.gamershell.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
They arent into arranged marriages if that is what you are thinking, and having a girlfriend doesnt necessitate sex, i wish it did, but not always, lol. Even in Iraq you gotta talk a girl out of her panties. http://www.gamershell.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/devil.gif

[Dennis S.]

Hrm.... DOH&#33; Guess I&#39;ll have to return those tickets to Iraq that I just got... Thanks for telling http://www.gamershell.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[trbjones]

We should attack now before he attacks use what do you lot think