Anti DRM & CP day!

You're going out of line again mister caveman, fall of DRM doesnt mean fall of developers.
The modern copyprotection and digital rights management is BULLSHIT. I heavily hate it :rant:

I agree with Magus on that. No protection or drm doesn't mean the downfall of gaming. I haven't seen EA games use sf or any other real protection that wasn't cracked in seconds by an it student and they seem to be doing fairly well. I've even heard rumours that they are doing better then you guys, but that must be false, without any type of real protection they must be bankrupt now and those capatilists (ask NXS about EA, he loves them...) must be making games for free now. That really fits their companyprofile.

I think that Microsoft is going down aswell, I heard they are giving free copies away of their new os, Vista beta :Oo: (bad joke, I know.)

Cdv, Ubisoft and Codemasters are all doing fine because they release great games and don't scare away potential customers with copy protection virusses. And one of your opinions made it into my sig, my compliments for that sentence, it amused me :thumbup:

Caveman wouldn't worry about piracy if his company actually sold copious amounts of games. On the other hand, if they aren't catering to a mainstream audience they must rely on copy protection in order to keep a fanbase. If their games had little or no copy protection, there would be much less incentive to support them and buy the game. Because it affects small selling games, I think piracy should be implimented for at least every game. It would be impossible to choose between games being popular or not, and agreeing that they will sell well. If you assume every game is going to do poorly, you would add copy protection and get as many users as possible.

Props for Caveman :thumbup:

And just to bash EA : EA SUX !! hrhr

Re: CDV

http://www.cdv-forum.de/cdvboard/english/s...ead.php?t=55419

And no it wasn't SF that did it. But nice try. :thumbup:

And as a bonus, a little about Atari:


http://www.gamespot.com/news/6159134.html


With a choice quote: "Today's news ends the search for a buyer, and provides Atari--which hasn't posted a profit since 1999--with much-needed capital."


And I think to mention the big name publishers skirts the issue a little too much. Any one of you who has been in gaming for an appreciable amount of time knows of developers that went out of business.



But I think that it should be decided if this thread is about anti-DRM or if we are going to talk exclusively about CP again (i.e. Starforce). That link is to anti-DRM day. Personally, I think a change of topic would be a good thing here. Those anti-SF threads are suffering from a major case of fatigue.


This isn't really about piracy either. This is about professional development companies being paid for their work and owning their creations. That is what the removal of DRM is about. Ownership and legal rights over their intellectual properties. Now if games and other types of software become legally free (anti-DRM) it is not longer a question of piracy. Pirates become legitimate users.

Now I think I can speak for the majority of people in the video game industry in that they, like me, work for a living and expect (like everyone else) to be paid for their work. I have worked on mod teams for games and went into it as a hobby with complete understanding that there was no financial reward for it. I happily gave my spare time for it. But if it is my full time job I expect to be paid. Otherwise, I must find a new job. And the only way I get paid is if the company I work for gets paid.

I fully support the free software making guys and gals out there. And if the gaming industry is free for all then it should be voluntary. It should be the modders out there making indie games. Those that willingly sacrifice their spare time to make games for others for free. Like I have done in the past.

However, it is unrealistic to expect people to not earn money to pay rent, eat etc. just so someone else can have it for free.

Society does support both free software and paid (owned) software. If you really want to do away with paid (owned) software, then the solution is already there. It is the free software. I wouldn't worry so much because the people who make video games (programmers, artists etc.) like doing it so I reckon they will still do it in their spare time. So the number of people making games will not change. Just the resources to make games will change (money, organization, time spent etc.).

What it boils down to is your either support the current system, pay for the software and reap the benefits of professionally designed and supported software or you take what is currently free and settle for that or you can support an initiative to make it all free and settle for what folks can make in their spare time.


Edit: Spelling

DRM and TCPI has been alwayys crap. Especially if you know that it won't stop piracy but give them extra kudos because the warez version is free of it. CP has always been a burden to the honest buyer, not to the crossbone babes. neat lil anti TCPI clip

Originally posted by KamisoriX@Oct 4 2006, 03:38 PM
A CP that meant to work correctly doesn't mean it does. Getting rid of it would nullify that problem. look at id. They are well
known and after 2-3 patches they even release a No CD patch themself. As Carmack said on D3 press con the people who
downloaded the game probably never had the intension of buying it. So it's not a subject to concern about...but rather what
can you do to satisfi those who did buy the game. That's why id was against any radical CP for their games and still shooting
out free contents for their products.

It's about that we, the people, should be able to decide ourself what is trustworthy and what not instead of some corp munks.
As the vid stated: Trust based on mutuality. if they don#t trust you, why should you trust them

Yes, if CP was not on a product, it could not work incorrectly. But what does that have to do with those who bypass it vs. those who do not. Nothing. People who bypass take greater risks and can suffer greater damage. Your statement was about the illegal user not suffering and the legal user suffering. With a product with no CP, it is a moot point.

As for people who would never buy it anyways, if piracy was not possible, would those people stop being gamers because they actually had to pay for it or not play games.

Now if you want to talk about this, why not go back to the old thread about SF and re-mention these points there where they have already been discussed.

Or why not actually talk about something different so that more people get interested in joining the conversation as they see it is a new topic rather than a dead horse. If you want to talk about SF and CP, you know I will happily meet you in that thread. But you are doing a disservice to anti_DRM day by not discussing that. ;)

As for DRM: I knew you would say "choice". Choice has not been taken from you. Choose to buy products that do not contain this chip. Personally, unless some indication of harm is actually proven with these chips, I could care less. Like I said before, go for the stuff that is voluntarily given away for free. Choice is still yours to embrace. The number of restrictions you place on yourself regarding choice is wholly determined by you. That video atempts to imply that choice is taken away from you. It is not. The power of choice sits comfortably in your wallet (or purse). I won't deny that the video lays down a well thought out premise in a very compelling way. But the premise itself is false. There is no damage to your freedom of choice.

it would be enough if they would make more open source OS compatibility. That's all there is to it. then i would live happy with linux. sure, the more there is the harder it is to develope for them all. But we can say that linux is a well recognized alternative by now but they can't even get things working for apple OS so i don't see a future there unless it's DIY or using someones scrips which is also getting sparce lately. Well, MS is the monopol and they do as they please without anything able to stop them, for now. DRM is a part of TCPI and the structure of certifide prgs only is based on it. And it is not only software but hardware as well. if you play an old game that is not on the lest the graphic card won't prcess it even it could.

As it stand I'm against it as a regular user because it limits my controll over my things. For you as a Dev representative it appears to be good since you can make sure all the copies that are played are paid for. The thing is that this is limited to you as comercial industry but not for the freeware com.

Originally posted by KamisoriX@Oct 4 2006, 09:38 AM
DRM and TCPI has been alwayys crap. Especially if you know that it won't stop piracy but give them extra kudos because the warez version is free of it. CP has always been a burden to the honest buyer, not to the crossbone babes. neat lil anti TCPI clip

Good video. Very well produced. And it tells a compelling story.

So who do you trust then? What criteria do you apply to a product that makes it trustworthy? Not names or type of products but what criteria must a product have to be trustworthy?

As for "always been a burden to the honest buyer" as you say, that is a myth. Pulling stunts to circumvent CP is about the most dangerous thing you can do to your computer. What you are in fact doing is making it so that a program (CP) that is meant to work correctly, no longer works correctly. So I think that fallacy needs to end here.


Also, what is it about that chip in the video that is not trustworthy? Why does it not fall within any of the parameters that qualify as trustworthy?

A CP that meant to work correctly doesn't mean it does. Getting rid of it would nullify that problem. look at id. They are well
known and after 2-3 patches they even release a No CD patch themself. As Carmack said on D3 press con the people who
downloaded the game probably never had the intension of buying it. So it's not a subject to concern about...but rather what
can you do to satisfi those who did buy the game. That's why id was against any radical CP for their games and still shooting
out free contents for their products.

It's about that we, the people, should be able to decide ourself what is trustworthy and what not instead of some corp munks.
As the vid stated: Trust based on mutuality. if they don#t trust you, why should you trust them