ATI or nVidia, the facts, your oppinions, etc. etc. etc.

toprat · 08-10-2009, 08:01 PM

So before this turns into a flame war, please keep in mind that every one is entitled to their opinions and reasons for said opinions.

=-Factors to take into account:
=-Judging by numbers and real evidence which brand do you guys generally prefer?
=-Is price a factor for you?
=-Past experience?
=-Any other reasons you want to include...

Also, so you can get some of your facts straight on the new cards etc. here is a link to a well known and trusted website, that as far as I can see takes no bias in it's benchmarking.
ORB - Hardware Prices and Performance

These benchmarks only account for frame-rates, so by no means is this list the end all be all, but it is still a pretty solid start. Any other benchmarks you guys know about please post.

___________________________
My side of the argument:(no flaming please, try to keep it mature)

I prefer ATI, for the simple fact that the cards are cheaper for similar power. Also I am and AMD guy for the same reason. I do realize that ATI has many driver support issues, and their cards can prove to be "breaky" at times, to say the least, but, when the right research is done, every now and then you can come across a truly well built card.

HD0087 · 08-10-2009, 08:57 PM

A little dry topic but I'll give my two cents

I prefer Nvidia because price usually isn't an issue and I like having the absolute best neither do I feel like should support the underdogs

-Somewhat better driver support tho because they are releasing them like every weekend or so there are occasionally ones that have issues.
And if you would have asked 3months ago I would have praised Cuda over Ati Stream. But I've since learned that both are more or less OpenCL in a mask so...
Theres nothing wrong with Ati specially if you like games based on OpenGL that seem to generally run better on their cards.
Anyway Nvidia is my choice for the time being. But I won't hesitate switching sides if/when Ati finally gets out an highend card that could whoop some serious Nvidia ass. But I fear thats never going to happen anymore. The last card that I'd remember being better than anything else at the time was the 9800 series untill Nvidia 6800 which wasn't long after.

Slaymate · 08-10-2009, 10:01 PM

Nvidia rules

ATi does makes some good cards, dollar for dollar their usually the best deal. But when your looking beyond that and performance is your main goal then Nvidia is the Shizzle.

I don't concern myself with dollars, I've owned both Nvidia and ATi. I buy the best performing card/cards that are available at the time. Right now I'm waiting on the new Nvidia 300 Series to be released

And your link is crap. It doesn't even show the GTX 295 and it's claiming the GTX 275 outperforms my GTX 280 and the GTX 285. It also says a GTX 280 is $759.99 which is about $500 off. And the ATi 4870 X2 is leading the pack, that's just funny.

ORB - Compare

toprat · 08-11-2009, 03:40 PM

Yeah i noticed that about the link. However just to note those are based off of benchmarks. The numbers are not simply pulled out of thin air. And the benchmarks are based off of number of frames per second generated in several games. So those results are not completely off.

Here. Check out this link then. This is from Tom's Hardware: Gaming Graphics Charts For 2009: Updated! : New Benchmarks, Reference Cards, And Retail Products - Review Tom's Hardware
(the charts are on the top right of the page, in a drop down box sorted by game.) This may make you feel alittle more comfortable.

EDIT:

This is a FPS average rate comparison for F.E.A.R. 2 , granted the prices are still off, the results of performance are all that really matter. Charts, benchmarks Gaming Graphics Cards Charts 2009 (High Quality), F.E.A.R. 2'

EDIT 2

Also for the record, the 4870x2 outperforms almost every nVidia card on the market. Granted it is a duel GPU card, it's price is about the same as a gtx 285. Just some more food for thought.

And @HD0087 lol I couldn't agree with you more, the guys over at nVidia have their shit together with drivers. ATI needs to take a note or two. ATI is just as bad at putting out new drivers as Microsoft is at putting out new kernels lol

EDIT 3lol

and @slay again:

My next build is going to be an intel ati build. holy shit that i7 is a monster. at 4.2ghz your stock was 2.6ghz right? are you reaching that under liquid or phase change or both?

Slaymate · 08-11-2009, 05:07 PM

The 4870 X2 is the joke of jokes. It can't touch a GTX 295, hell it can't keep up with my GTX 280.

The 4.2GHz is on air cooling. Here's a shot of what it does with Phase Cooling

toprat · 08-11-2009, 05:48 PM

lol that's insane... I'm thinking about upgrading my water block for this new build to the Apogee GTZ for the i7, apparently it runs hotter. what voltages are you running? and your multiplier/stepping level? (if you don't mind revealing this info. also if you wouldn't mind taking a look at the build i put together so far. I can email you the newegg wish list)

Well to support the counter argument. I usually don't follow consoles but I'm pretty sure i found a reason why ATI is so goddamn lazy. ATI has had contracts with Nintendo since Game Cube, and Sega Dreamcast. SO wtf does ATI care about the little man? they make all their profits from these corporate fat-asses.

im playing around with an nVidia build as well at the moment. I'm looking into the 295. I want to do some more research.

Do you over clock your 280s? and if so is it difficult?

RaiZen18 · 08-11-2009, 06:11 PM

I will go for ATI - mainly because the NVidia is way to expensive for me, I always have a tight budget for these things, so I will go for the best performance for money that is in my price range.

I currently have a 4850 and am so happy with it! Its the best thing I could have done with my money, and to top it off my aunt paid half for it as my birthday gift, so that was nice!

I agree nvidia is better perfomer, no doubt, but on a budget they not always the best option. ATI cards are slowly catching up, hopefuly one day they can be qual but @ a better price, but till then I will go performance for buck ratio, this may also change if I win the lotto...

Slaymate · 08-12-2009, 01:34 AM

It's really not a good time to buy a video card, you should wait a couple more months. Both Nvidia and ATi will have new Next-Gen cards out soon. They'll cost Top-Dollar but the price of "todays" cards will come down.

The GTX 295 is the fastest single card on the market right now. But it's a dual gpu card like the ATi X2 models. I'm not a fan of dual gpu cards, they get a lot hotter than a single gpu. And because most people don't buy them, it's hard to get an aftermarket cooler. Now if your water cooling you'll have a few more cooling options, by it will cost you. I don't water cool for that reason mostly, I like to keep my PC's up to date with the newest hardware and the extra cost just isn't worth it.

Yes my cards are easily overclocked. Stock for my GTX 280's is 602 core and 1107 memory. I was at 700 core and 1175 memory for that Vanage run posted above (and they'll go higher). I use EVGA Precision to overclock them, but it doesn't work for ATi cards. EVGA Precision 1.7.1 download from Guru3D.com

My i7 runs at 4.2GHz with a QPI(simular to the front side bus) of 205. The multiplier is 20 but Turbo Mode boosts it to 21 so long as the speed does not exceed 5GHz. I'm running 1.325 cpu volts and my QPI or cpu vtt volts are at 1.25 volts. There are other voltages and settings to adjust and every mobo is different, but I have (2) i7 920 systems both running at 4.2GHz so it's not that hard to do

toprat · 08-12-2009, 03:09 PM

cool, that's nice to know, and I didn't realize that the 295 was a duely.

Why if you don't mind me asking are the GPU clocks so much slower on nVidia cards? my 4890 is at 1.1ghz (50c idle, 65c load - air cooling) and the memory is at 1.2ghz. and stock for that card specifically is 950mhz.

Also Stream processing unit vs. Possessing cores? what is the difference if any. (its hard to find information comparing the two as they seem to be so different. (this is not to generate traffic for another forum, but simply to help in this issue.
Processing Cores vs. Stream Processing Units - Overclock.net - Overclocking.net

let me know what you think, I permalinked the most relevant looking post.

HD0087 · 08-12-2009, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toprat

Also Stream processing unit vs. Possessing cores? what is the difference if any. (its hard to find information comparing the two as they seem to be so different. (this is not to generate traffic for another forum, but simply to help in this issue.
Processing Cores vs. Stream Processing Units - Overclock.net - Overclocking.net

let me know what you think, I permalinked the most relevant looking post.

Without going into too much detail Atis GPGPU attempt works along side AMD CPUs and Nvidia is just plain taking it upon it self and relying into a more straight horsepower approach.
And from what I've heard Atis Stream is harder to take advatage due to its architecture.
Ati should still be faster than Nvidias solution but because Nvidia architecture is pretty straight forward its alot easyer to fully take advantage of.
OpenCL makes coding alot easyer both ways. Thats just a personal opinion but I just don't see either Ati Stream or Cuda going a long way.