Here we go again! - Page 4

BuffaloChips · 06-10-2008, 12:53 PM

N-re-4ever,

You definitely have a comprehension problem I didn't say that YOU are either a hypocrite or liar. I said that anyone CLAIMING TO BE A MUSLIM that doesn't agree with the teachings of ISLAM is either a hypocrite or liar. Please get that straight.

This debate or watever you call it is at a dead end because you think that a class in school is going to tell you the actual truth. Just like your refusal to read and understand the things from thereligionofpeace.com.

Tell me, what does this mean to you ...

Quote:

Sura (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts"
Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar."

This is exactly what I am talking about. Both of those verses tell Muslims that they can lie. They are both referencing lies to non-Muslims, of course. Muhammad taught that Muslims were not to lie to one another. But, this sets the groundwork for any Muslim to tell you that they do not believe all the Qur'anic teachings. Simply because the intention in his heart is to deceive YOU.

Ever heard the phrase, "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer?" What better way than to convince you that they are actually peace loving and believe that we should all live free.

Those two verses are specific and you want to tell me that I misunderstand? What other religion do you know of that openly advocates lying to others for any reason?

Richard_Rahl · 06-10-2008, 02:42 PM

That Sura quote is not a permit to lie intentionaly. It is actually saying that bad intentions you have with an oath will be punished. And not an unthoughtful way of speaking the oath out.
Just read it carefully and think about it yourself, instead of letting a plausible source do the brainwork for you.

Bukhari quote: Such a person is not necessarily a liar indeed. Though I need the full section wherein this is written. This quote lacks its context this way.

BuffaloChips · 06-10-2008, 03:30 PM

WOW! What a lack of reading comprehension. Either that or you have fallen victim to PC garbage.

Richard_Rahl · 06-10-2008, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuffaloChips

WOW! What a lack of reading comprehension. Either that or you have fallen victim to PC garbage.

A bit more respect please!

Anyway, PC is Philosophy Class?

BuffaloChips · 06-10-2008, 10:18 PM

Well Richard, comprehension of English is obviously not a strong suit of yours. Albeit for the fact that you're from a non-English speaking European country. But by PC, I mean "Politically Correct." Everyone wants to paint a pretty picture of Muslims and Islam these days and for centuries they have done just the opposite.

But, as for the Sura(2:225) verse, This means that God (Allah) will not hold anything against you for lying based on what your attention was for doing so. That means if you lie for a good reason (ie. furthering the Islamic goals) God (Allah) will not consider you a liar.

See, you (or whomever fed you that line) dug really deep in your ass to come up with the PC garbage you spewed in your post. Sorry, my grasp on that line is a little better no matter what you believe.

Slaymate · 06-11-2008, 12:47 AM

The biggest problem I see with Islam in general is being reinforced by the (2) of you. Everyone interpet's it differently. And it's never seems to be interpets moderately, it's always seems to one extreme or the other.

I truely believe a lot of Muslim read the Karan just as BuffaloChips is reading it. But I also believe just as many, or more, read it just as Richard does.

Is Islam Bad. Generally I'm gonna have to say no it isn't. Just as I'll say about Christianty. There are alway going to be Extremist in every religion. And they are always the Bad Guy's. Period.....

I'll give you guys each another reply. Think about what your going to say. Reflect on each others opinions and what I just said. BE POLITE. After that I'm CLOSING THIS THREAD!!!!!

n-re-4ever · 06-11-2008, 08:00 AM

muslims can lie in war and in making peace too.
i dont want to say any thing am done.

Richard_Rahl · 06-11-2008, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuffaloChips

Well Richard, comprehension of English is obviously not a strong suit of yours. Albeit for the fact that you're from a non-English speaking European country. But by PC, I mean "Politically Correct." Everyone wants to paint a pretty picture of Muslims and Islam these days and for centuries they have done just the opposite.

For you it may have been obvious, but for me it was not. That is, being politically correct is usually not being called "crap". At least not in a country with a "developed" society. And I wish to quote an earlier post of yours in this thread: "Go learn something rather than the PC crap you are going to be taught in school".
Well, I think it is not my fault that you have been a bit ambiguous. So I simply did a gamble, partially based on your previous use of that acronym (which I probably misinterpreted also).

The Muslims have not done the opposite in the past, cities like Antioch (now possibly named differently) and Jerusalem have been having both muslim and local christians co-existing peacefully for centuries (there wasn't any trouble until the crusaders went there). If you wish to verify that, you should watch the two documentaries titled "The Crusades: The crescent and the cross".
The Crusades - Crescent and the Cross, episode 1
The Crusades - Crescent and the Cross, episode 2

That good reason you mention in your "explanation" of the Sura quote, can be any good reason. So not necessarily "furthering the Islamic goals". So I am not quite certain whether your "grasp" on that line is really "better" than mine. It is depending on how you interpret it.

The latter can be linked to what Slaymate has written. Thus I agree with him, Muslims interpret it differntly too. Also see my posts with the numbers 11 and 14. By the way, I think that that interpretation trouble divided them into the several religious groups they are divided in (like christians are divided that way too in e.g. orthodox christians, protestants, etc.).

@ Slaymate: thank you for allowing us to make a final post here before you close this topic.

BuffaloChips · 06-11-2008, 11:24 PM

I'm done talking to apologists and I'm not even going to read Richard's post. I know how to read and I know what Islam is. It is a cult with the mandate to convert and dominate the entire world, PERIOD! I don't care what so-called Muslims say and I don't care what you apologists say. I don't care about the crusades, that was a few hundred years ago and WE have evolved. It is the practitioners of ISLAM that want us all to live in the 14th century. They haven't evolved a bit.

Anyway, you apologists should get started living the way of Sharia Law because it is coming to you if you don't wake up.

And Slay, if you can honestly read those and believe that it doesn't mean that they can lie, I feel sorry for you to. That is just the liberal white washing of the issue.

That is all.

Nxs · 06-12-2008, 07:24 PM

Ya know, I am going to have to agree with BC here. Islam is just not nice! Let me ask you guys something. When someone says the words Islam or Muslim, what is the first thing that comes to mind for most people? I bet 10 to 1 they say suicide bombings or bin laden! Why, because that is what they do and what they believe!

I have said it before and I will say it again, any religion that tells you that you hurt or kill another person and that gets you 72 virgins, I have to disagree with. I am a Christian and from the 34 years of me going to church or reading the Bible have I ever heard 'go kill people innocent people to get you into heaven.'

They treat women like shit and they treat anyone that does not believe the same way they do like shit!